> Most pain, as SPY will probably concur is "referred pain"

Actually, I don't know if that's true. The place to START is to assume the thing that hurts is where the problem is. Groin pains are weird -- so many nerves down there that pain is more easily referred, but wouldn't say to ASSUME it's refered. You always look where it hurts first.

> Epididymis in men up to age 40 is VERY Rare

that would also surprise me very much.

I think Epi from fecal bacteria is less common than Epi from chlamydia but I'm not sure how scientific that is.

I know I push the hernia theory hard sometimes, but no doubt that's because I have put so much of my own hopes in that. Mostly I try to stand for the ideas:

- if what you're doing isn't working, try something else

- there are many cause of pelvic pain

- infection is on the list, certainly. Arnold and I probably agree on something here (that less than a month of antibiotics is too few for a first attempt, and that if one type of antibiotics doesn't work, another type might, because different types kill differnt bugs and more than one bug infects the prostate and epididymis -- for example, if Levaquin didn't work after a month, I might try Flagyl) (actually I DID try both).

Maybe where I differ from most doctors and everyone is I don't see these categories as mutually exclusive. Kidney stones can cause recurrent infections; ditto hernias; and for both of them when the infections are temporarily cured the pain that's left can still hurt like hell. And all pelvic pain can lead to muscle spasms.

LOOK I'm no doctor, and I know that, but you're saying your diagnosis is pain:

"referred from my sacroiliac joint, which has laxity in the muscles, tendons, and ligaments"

WHAT? And he reached that conclusion HOW? How was this mysterious laxity MEASURED? And what exactly is NORMAL? And how did this laxity occur? Is this a mainstream doctor or a chiropractor.

LOOKIT I GET SPASMS TOO. Chronic pain causes them. That's all the explanation you need. I don't have "laxity." I can bicycle 35 miles (in pain, mind you). But chronic pain tells muscles they should tighten up to protect themselves -- thing of your gut tightening when it is punched, to protect internal organs from getting injured. But the more than pain goes on, the more the chemicals are created and can drift further afield and affect more remote areas. Sometimes I get woken up from thigh spasms or even calf muscle spasms. And sure, exercising helps, if only to remind muscles what their real job is.

There's no question that I have hernias. There's no question hernias can cause pain. There's also no question in most cases when hernias are repaire the pain stops and the spasms stop.

I don't know if you have hernias but you know the rule:

WHEN WHAT YOU'RE DOING ISN'T WORKING DO SOMETING ELSE.

- have you been checked for kidney stones? CT scan, and cystoscopy?

- have you seen a dedicated hernia surgeon who knows that small inguinal hernias can make pain that is mild in the morning and gets worse during the day especially from lifting or sitting?

and then there's other things. for that matter taking antibiotics for a month in a different class than you tried before.

I'm sure you've been through a lot. The hardest part of this sometimes is to keep trying stuff. Especially because pain sucks. And never stops sucking.

May first surgery is November 28th (left side hernia) and December 12 (right side). I've already restarted Levaquin (my idea) (an antibiotic) on the chance I'm still infected to reduce the chance surgery might spread the infection.

Time will tell.

Spy